Beryl sabotage?

[gnumdk]

http://lists.beryl-project.org/pipermail/beryl-dev/2007-February/000237.html

Here, i can read:

Recently, Ben Reeves, also known as
"Zootreeves", the site administrator of the Compiz forums (at the
time), was caught red-handed breaking into a Beryl server and
performing sabotage.

Is that real? If true, i find it really sad things go that way ... :(

[amgeex]

Yes, this is true. I just hope that people don't think that zootreeves' actions reflect the feelings of Compiz towards Beryl in any way, because its simply not the case. We're not fighting with Beryl, this were the doings of an individual. Its really sad that he did what he did, but we can't change it. Live with it and move on.

[Soaa-]

Unfortunately, it was. Beryl's blog database got dumped as well as a few others. Fortunately though, everything was recovered thanks to their up-to-date backups.

Still, it's sad how an angry high-profiled person attacked a project that isn't even rivaling his. He did contribute to Beryl when it was still compiz-quinn, but the attack was just wrong.

[RYX]

It happened a couple of months ago and there was an agreement from both sides that this would not be made public - whoever wrote about it on a publicly available mailinglist is an *%%&=§!. The so called "sabotage" was a silly one-man-action and he already "paid" for that. We should just forget about this. It belongs to the past.

:|

[racarr]

It happened a couple of months ago and there was an agreement from both sides that this would not be made public - whoever wrote about it on a publicly available mailinglist is an *%%&=§!. The so called "sabotage" was a silly one-man-action and he already "paid" for that. We should just forget about this. It belongs to the past.

:|

He has not paid for anything because we didn't want to ruin his life by seeking charges, and he has not lived up to what was agreed upon.

The agreement was:
1. He would step down from his compiz positions. The header on this forum indicates he is STILL a moderator (Zootreeves == Guest). He has obviously not stepped down, nor has he been removed as agreed upon.

2. He would write a signed apology (With his real name) which would be posted a week or two later (As to avoid his name being in a story on digg or something along those lines). He wrote a letter essentially saying "Beryl is a bunch of jerks so I issued vigilante justice" and did NOT sign it.

[RYX]

No need to get loud. He paid for that in sense of being temporarily banned from the community. He isn't an admin anymore (since at least 1-2 months) ... "Guest" is a dead account. He recently re-registered as a normal user (because of public demand) to continue working on his settings-manager.

I wonder why especially the guys that weren't around when the fork happened and things were getting ugly are the ones getting loud today. You have no idea what really happened and obviously believe the wrong people ... You should really try to get a more "global" view of that topic.

:|

[Kristian]

Hmm, strange you should say that RYX.

I was around at the time of the fork, I didn't like the way it went down any better than the next person, I faced the fact that it did go down however. But enough about that...

I can't really see that you were present during the meeting between Ben Reeves, Imnotpc and the Beryl developers discussing the "settlement"? So how can you talk about it any more than Robert can talk about the fork?

None of us want this hostility, the fact is that Ben did something truly bad, and victims of his vandalism are not content with how it was handled. We don't want to blame the Compiz community, that's why it was kept quiet in the first place.

I find it strange that you protect him so much, he hurt the Compiz community as much as the Beryl community by doing this, in fact probably more. If the compiz community had condemned this from the start, and publicly, it would have been a story about a guy doing something bad, but by not condemning it, it is much more tempting to make it into a story of a community hushing over a guy doing something bad. And I for one don't belive that is what the Compiz community really wanted here.

Why can't we just agree that what Ben Reeves did was a grave mistake, and that it was handled badly and insufficiently? Just like the Beryl fork was handled badly at the time it happened. Because truly, there is no denying that the fork went down badly, but that doesn't mean we have to keep this eternal bickering going. Neither Beryl nor Compiz will vanish any time soon, and I for one is getting tierd of this fighting.

[RYX]

You're right and I agree - he did something very bad and I don't want to defend that by any means. I wasn't around during the "settlement" but I got the information internally (i.e. in a private context). I thought it should be kept private for the best of everyone.

I don't want to protect him but I don't want to let him being publicly blamed, either. It's right - we should stop fighting (and I'd personally love to) - but do you think publishing such things (especially in such a manner) is a peaceful behavior? If we want to stop fighting we simply have to stop attacking each other.

:)

[imnotpc]

The agreement was:
1. He would step down from his compiz positions. The header on this forum indicates he is STILL a moderator (Zootreeves == Guest). He has obviously not stepped down, nor has he been removed as agreed upon.

You're wrong. This happened exactly as agreed.

2. He would write a signed apology (With his real name) which would be posted a week or two later (As to avoid his name being in a story on digg or something along those lines). He wrote a letter essentially saying "Beryl is a bunch of jerks so I issued vigilante justice" and did NOT sign it.

You're wrong. I don't know if he signed it or not, but I've seen the apology and that was not what it said, in essence, or in fact. Post it.

I can't really see that you were present during the meeting between Ben Reeves, Imnotpc and the Beryl developers discussing the "settlement"? So how can you talk about it any more than Robert can talk about the fork?

I was indeed at the meeting.

None of us want this hostility, the fact is that Ben did something truly bad, and victims of his vandalism are not content with how it was handled.

I'm sorry the individual that lost the most was unhappy with the outcome. I heard about that afterwards. I wish we had a better solution to offer.

We don't want to blame the Compiz community, that's why it was kept quiet in the first place.

True, and exactly why there was no reason for you to bring it up now.

I find it strange that you protect him so much, he hurt the Compiz community as much as the Beryl community by doing this, in fact probably more. If the compiz community had condemned this from the start, and publicly, it would have been a story about a guy doing something bad, but by not condemning it, it is much more tempting to make it into a story of a community hushing over a guy doing something bad. And I for one don't belive that is what the Compiz community really wanted here.

You're wrong. We condemned it on our front page using text that DBO and I agreed on. You know this.

Edit: Here is the last version of the statement from the wiki archives. We agreed at the meeting that there would be no further compiz posting on this issue.

On January 2nd, 2007 Beryl's servers were the victim of an online attack directed at their MySQL server. This attack removed most of their entries for the past several weeks and will cost them countless hours in repair and recovery. We would ask that you keep their plights at heart and offer them your condolences. The Compiz Team highly frowns upon such reckless behavior. Whoever did this was in the wrong and we support the Beryl Team in their efforts to find whoever is responsible.

Why can't we just agree that what Ben Reeves did was a grave mistake, and that it was handled badly and insufficiently?

We won't agree to that because it was handled professionally and correctly, and other than a question about "signing" the apology, the terms we mutually agreed to were met. You're just trolling now.

There was never any requirement that Ben stop participating with compiz. In fact when he offered, more than one of your members stated that they didn't want him to stop working on compiz code. Pull the transcript. If there was a problem with Ben not living up to the agreement I should have been notified long before this.

You guys are welcome in our community and on our forum, but this is not the time or place to be pulling this crap. Half your statements are wrong and this discussion is pointless, and over.

Jeff

[racarr]

True, and exactly why there was no reason for you to bring it up now.


Kristian brought it up on the mailing list as a reason as to why he would not like to merge with Compiz. As the posts indicate I disagree with how this was delivered and a lot of the points, but I think it was a valid point to bring up and discuss given the meta discussion.

It was brought up on this forum by someone else.

In regards to

>> You're wrong. This happened exactly as agreed.

It's possible I misunderstood this, but the account of Guest seems to be posts made by the individual in question after the incident, and also seems to be a moderator on several forums. I believe it was implied and stated that he would step down from all his positions, but if he stepped down as an administrator while remaining a moderator and this was what we agreed on, I apologize, and note this is not what we meant to agree to.

>> You're wrong. I don't know if he signed it or not, but I've seen the apology and that was not what it said, in essence, or in fact, Post it.

"On January 4th 2007 I gained access to phpmyadmin on the beryl servers from passwords I had found on the site previously. I deleted several databases related to the wiki, blog and some personal data.
I did this because of frustration I felt over the beryl project, I felt that some mis-information was spread about compiz particularity the reasons for the fork. The trigger was some of the jokes/comments I read on IRC.
I have let down both the compiz and beryl community and I apologize greatly for that and I will be stepping down as the compiz forum administrator. It is also important to note that my actions don’t reflect the beliefs of the compiz project and are certainly not condoned by them. I hope compiz and beryl can work better together in future."

In my opinion this apology comes off as a bit of an attack at Beryl, or at least an attempt at justification which feels wrong to me.

However it could just be writing style, and it's silly to nitpick over the details of apology, I shouldn't have brought this up. However I do believe the signing point remains valid.

>>I'm sorry the individual that lost the most was unhappy with the outcome. I heard about that afterwards. I wish we had a better solution to offer.

Really I think the entire thing was handled in a kind of silly fashion. If someone makes an illegal action against you, you either contact the appropriate authorities and seek the pressing of charges, or you don't. There shouldn't be any under the table deals, and there really didn't need to be much discussion.

Simply put Beryl should have informed Compiz and that should have been it. The individual in question could have chosen to write an apology or not to do so on his own accord, and Compiz may or may not have chosen to ask him to step down as forum administrator.

>>We won't agree to that because it was handled professionally and correctly, and other than a question about "signing" the apology, the terms we mutually agreed to were met. You're just trolling now.

See above

[racarr]

I was wrong as to the guest account thing, I had my dates mixed up. Sorry.

[imnotpc]

It's possible I misunderstood this, but the account of Guest seems to be posts made by the individual in question after the incident, and also seems to be a moderator on several forums. I believe it was implied and stated that he would step down from all his positions, but if he stepped down as an administrator while remaining a moderator and this was what we agreed on, I apologize, and note this is not what we meant to agree to.

What you are seeing is phpbb's way of handling posts and rights that belong to an individual account that has been deleted. He deleted his own account and turned the database over to me within days of the meeting.
In my opinion this apology comes off as a bit of an attack at Beryl, or at least an attempt at justification which feels wrong to me.

I see an explanation and a motivation, perhaps some justification, but certainly not an attack and nothing to justify your characterizing this as "Beryl is a bunch of jerks so I issued vigilante justice". The text speaks for itself and your comments were inaccurate. These kinds of statements only hurt a process many of us believe in.
Simply put Beryl should have informed Compiz and that should have been it. The individual in question could have chosen to write an apology or not to do so on his own accord, and Compiz may or may not have chosen to ask him to step down as forum administrator.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if indeed you think it was "handled badly and insufficiently" then it was handled this way by beryl. I cooperated completely and saw that the terms of the agreement were carried out on our end, but I was the only compiz rep out of maybe 7-8 beryl admins. Blaming compiz for this is simply wrong. However I don't believe that was his point. What I believe Kristian was referring to was us not condemning the attack, which we very clearly did do.

In the context of merger discussions, I think these are exactly the kinds of issues that need to be discussed in private before bringing the topic up on a public forum. If there was a feeling we hadn't handled this correctly, then I would have gladly explained this privately and avoided all this counter-productive public mud-slinging. Let's go back to more productive discussions on the other thread.

[delfick]

speaking of zootreeves, does anyone maintain his emerald engine anymore ??

[benr]

I'm not sure whether I should respond to this or not, but anyway i'm going to try.

1. He would step down from his compiz positions. The header on this forum indicates he is STILL a moderator (Zootreeves == Guest). He has obviously not stepped down, nor has he been removed as agreed upon.
I don't have access to the account anymore.

2. He would write a signed apology (With his real name) which would be posted a week or two later (As to avoid his name being in a story on digg or something along those lines). He wrote a letter essentially saying "Beryl is a bunch of jerks so I issued vigilante justice" and did NOT sign it.
if there was a problem with my apology ixce (or anyone else) could have contacted me before it was published, It certainly wasn't meant to sound like an attack on beryl and i apologize if some people read it that way. As for signing it in my email to ixce it was signed with zootreeves as agreed. It is ixce who edited it or mis-quoted it, but again this was between him and me and if he wanted anything changing i would have done so gladly if he had contacted me. I am only dissapointed that you could not hold up your end of the agreement and leave my real name out of it, especially using it as an attack on David.

speaking of zootreeves, does anyone maintain his emerald engine anymore ??
I think quinn maintains it now

Regards,
~zootreeves

[nesnomis]

Well, i am reading the forums, but not a contributor to the projects (beryl and compiz) so, i think im free to say what i think about all this from 3'd perspektive!

First of all... if one person does something that damages the communities and really does he's part of the agreement, then that's water under the bridge! But if someone later breaks the agreement by telling names and aggitating more about it, i think that the beryl community should think about what kind of damage that inflicts on beryl / compiz communities!? ... Maybe the person (persons?) responsible for leaking information and thereby breaking the agreement should think about stepping down och maybe be shut out!? ... after all it is a violation of the agreement!!! (as i understand it!?) and damaging the communities!!!

It seems like some people are having some personal satisfaction discussing how stupid others are more than actually coding on compiz / beryl.... !?!?

Well thats it... sorry... but it was not so easy to keep my mouth shut!... And btw. if nobody has thought of it before, David is swedish and Compiz is probably a synonym for kompis, wich means 'friend' ... so.... let's try that a little bit!.... :) ... (And get rid of agressors!!!)

[imnotpc]

This event was resolved by mutual agreement 2 months ago. I represented compiz and saw that we lived up to the agreement. If anyone has an issue with how this was handled please contact me directly by PM. There's nothing to discuss in public and I'm locking this thread.