Plugins Separately...

[Iyeru]

I was wondering if I could get plugins that are normally just in compiz (IE: Wobbly windows or the cube) for GNOME/Ubuntu. Because I think it would be a cool thing to be able to integrate the plugins separately, so we don't need Emerald or compiz.

[delfick]

I was wondering if I could get plugins that are normally just in compiz (IE: Wobbly windows or the cube) for GNOME/Ubuntu.

umm, I have the feeling you have a misunderstanding of the differences between desktop environments, distros and window managers.

All three of them are completely seperate.
An example of each would be
desktop environment : gnome, kde, xfce...
distro: ubuntu, suse, gentoo, kororaa, *insert 100s more distros here*
window manager: metacity, kwin, compiz, xcompmgr....

Basically, the distro is collection of different programs, settings, and other things, that make a specific system. (i.e. some distros aim to be small, some aim to be shiny, some aim to be usable, some aim to do all kinds of random stuff)

read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment) for an explanation of desktop environment (I can't explain it myself and am short of time as it is (uni workload))

and finally, the window manager, which controls the windows.

Compiz is a special window manager in that it uses compositing to give us some really nice eyecandy (I can't find a technical explanation, and whilst I sort of know it, I can't remember enough to give an explanation that would make sense)

now, one of the great features of compiz is that you can add extra functionality to it via plugins.

i.e. the plugins rely on compiz

and as the window manager, compiz is already "integrated" into the desktop (for applications to be able to have shiny effects within the window borders (which is outside the scope of the window manager) then that must be coded within the application itself, so that it takes advantage of compositing effects. like any program that has "real" transparency (background is transparent, but everything else isn't))

so regardless of the fact, these effects can't really be anymore "integrated" into the desktop, it would require rewriting compiz itself somewhere else.

(though I once did hear that in the far future, compiz will be integrated into the x-server, but that is a loooooong way away, if it's even true)......

Because I think it would be a cool thing to be able to integrate the plugins separately, so we don't need Emerald or compiz.

lol

the plugins are compiz :D

[Iyeru]

But X/ubuntu has a "Compositing" section in the "Windows Manager Tweaks." You can't simply just tell me that there aren't programs to acheive certain parts of compiz. What happened before there was a beryl?

[adamk]

A) Compiz is considerably different from the other compositing managers available in that it uses opengl to take advantage of your video cards 3D processor.

B) There are program to acheive certain parts of the same functionality. xcompmgr is one example. But xcompmgr only provides one (very small) part of the functionality that compiz provides.

C) The plugins require functionality only present in compiz (at the moment).

D) Before beryl there was compiz (compiz has been around longer). Before compiz this level of functionality did not exist, even in xcompmgr.

While other developers are more than welcome to look at the plugins and recycle the code into their own projects, the plugins can not just be added to other applications without some (probably considerable) work. Either each plugin would need to have it's dependencies on compiz core removed, or the functionality in compiz core would need to be added to the other applications.

Adam

[Iyeru]

or the functionality in compiz core would need to be added to the other applications.

Adam

Or, compiz could be broken down so that it would be able to configure it to run off of metacity. Or, you could make it so that each individual plugin would have compiz-core added inside of its own code, making it standalone and compatible with the current theme manager (IE: metacity)

[adamk]

Or, compiz could be broken down so that it would be able to configure it to run off of metacity. Or, you could make it so that each individual plugin would have compiz-core added inside of its own code, making it standalone and compatible with the current theme manager (IE: metacity)

Or *you* could do that. Have fun :-)

Adam

[Iyeru]

Or *you* could do that. Have fun :-)

Adam

*sighs* I'm not a coder though. I kind of used to be... but not for any computer language (PHP was my main language)

[delfick]

*sighs* I'm not a coder though. I kind of used to be... but not for any computer language (PHP was my main language)

I'm not a programmer, but I can imagine that even if it was possible to achieve your idea (which serves little purpose :p) it would take too much time and effort.

[Iyeru]

I'm not a programmer, but I can imagine that even if it was possible to achieve your idea (which serves little purpose :p) it would take too much time and effort.

So you're calling yourself lazy? -_-

I'm not lazy, I'm "dumb." (Yes, I just put myself down too.)

[delfick]

So you're calling yourself lazy? -_-

lol

there is a difference between lazy and not doing huge amounts of work because it is pointless :D (if it were trivial, but still pointless, then it's alright....)

I'm not lazy, I'm "dumb." (Yes, I just put myself down too.)

everyone is dumb
just in different ways
:D

[SmSpillaz]

window manager: metacity, kwin, compiz, xcompmgr....


errr...

Composite Manager: compiz, xcompmgr, kcompmgr

:D

Anyways, Compiz works kind of like XF4WM as it provides compositing functionality inside the window manger, meaning that there can be a deeper integration between window events and composite effects :)

(Sorry for trolling :D)

SmSpillaz

[Deciare]

Or, compiz could be broken down so that it would be able to configure it to run off of metacity. Or, you could make it so that each individual plugin would have compiz-core added inside of its own code, making it standalone and compatible with the current theme manager (IE: metacity)
In the spirit of avoiding duplication of effort--one of the major reasons Compiz and Beryl are no longer separate projects--I think the developers would be quite reluctant to embed a Compiz-core into each plugin that would have to be separately maintained.

[Iyeru]

In the spirit of avoiding duplication of effort--one of the major reasons Compiz and Beryl are no longer separate projects--I think the developers would be quite reluctant to embed a Compiz-core into each plugin that would have to be separately maintained.

You don't have to make compiz core embedded into them, you just have to make a "linker" plugin. (I like to call it LiNKER :p)

[adamk]

You don't have to make compiz core embedded into them, you just have to make a "linker" plugin. (I like to call it LiNKER :p)

It already exists... It's called compiz.

Adam

[Iyeru]

It already exists... It's called compiz.

Adam

Can you remove plugins from compiz though? And can you make it so compiz calls the XFCE manager instead of its own manager?

If you can tell me where to code it so it calls the XFCE manager instead of emerald or compiz, then that'd be great. However, I doubt some plugins will work with that manager.

[some-guy]

to remove the plugins you would have to modify the plugins and:
modify the targeted wm to support the needed openGL calls
make a separate composite manger ie xcompmng
or make another compiz :D