Desktop effects by default in Gutsy - how Compiz Fusion enhances Ubuntu's desktop [Archive]

Forlong

October 2nd, 2007, 08:06 PM

Hi everybody,

I took the time to write a (p)review/analysis of the desktop effects in Gutsy (Ubuntu's next release): http://forlong.blogage.de/article/2007/10/2/Desktop-effects-by-default-in-Gutsy---how-Compiz-Fusion-enhances-Ubuntus-desktop-of-version-710

It's mainly a review about what Compiz Fusion in Gutsy looks like. What you can expect and what not.

In addition to that it's an in-depth analysis of how they made it possible to provide the effects by default and what troubles you might face.

I hope you enjoy it.

Regards,
Nick

plun

October 2nd, 2007, 08:20 PM

Well... :)

This Gnome Integration is something that can ruin C-F.....Ubuntu is trying
to create something which probably doesnt work. Maybe in Gutsy +1, 8.04

A lot of users watching You Tube and read blogs.... Gnome settings :confused:

Also a gamer will directly get into trouble... "cancel redirect fullscreen window" is one way, another is to switch to Metacity.

The easiest way to handle this is with an GUI wrapper such as fusion-icon

Install compizconfig-settingsmanager will be a record FAQ question for Ubuntu.

100% sure :p

I am just testing Trevinos repo with Gusty and I hope it will be the solution for Ubuntu users which want to be free and choose to run C-F in full potential including unsupported stuff.

Thats it... probably, nearly for sure ...;)

plun

October 2nd, 2007, 11:07 PM

Some more points...

Marex introduce Simple ccsm :) Thanks Marex !

http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~marex/2007/09/28/making-progress/

Kristian about Gutsy... I should for sure be nervous...

"I am very excited about Compiz Fusion being enabled by default, and a little nervous. I am not entirely convinced we’re ready for it, due to issues like what I described above. But this certainly pushes the work forward, and I believe that the people who’s hardware is able to run Compiz Fusion will enjoy it under Gutsy. The people working on the Ubuntu packages have done a good job smoothing over issues with somewhat overly optimistic configuration defaults and bugs without appropriate upstream fixes."

http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~kristian/2007/10/02/compiz-fusion-in-gutsy-compiz-fusion-on-older-atis/

:)

delfick

October 3rd, 2007, 01:02 AM

I am just testing Trevinos repo with Gusty and I hope it will be the solution for Ubuntu users which want to be free and choose to run C-F in full potential including unsupported stuff.

ubuntu is a distro aimed at the not so technically advanced newb linux users (I was and still am such a person)

hence most people using that distro (no matter how degrading it sounds) probably won't be able to fix any major errors that come up making it impossible for them to use their computer

all they want is for it to work

I have absolutely no idea what the ubuntu devs think and I could be wrong in thinking the above, but that's what I believe is true....

as for those ubuntu users who do have some idea of what they're doing they can very simply and easily uninstall what is already provided, switch repo and install again.... simple, even most of those newb people can do that. Or if they're happy with what they have, but want the settings tool (that is designed to be a developer tool, even though it is by far easier than anything else available (gconf, editing ini by hand) except for Marex's creation) then all they have to do is sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager ....
I don't care how newb you are, that is just stupidly simple.

but it means there is a risk of problems, which I assume the ubuntu devs want to avoid....

remember, that what ubuntu provides is still quality, just because it isn't the latest in git, doesn't mean it's shit, far from it.

out of interest, do you use latest git of every single program you use, or do you use release versions of everything ?? how is that different to compiz-fusion in gutsy, which isn't release version, but later than release version still ??

and if I were to give you a choice of compiz-quinnstorm and say what ubuntu provides, what would you choose ?? ....what ubuntu provides of course, because it's better, it's really really really good.

and as with any project, when the latest features of this project are released, then it will be very probable that ubuntu includes that release (as they do with any program, when there is a new release) and the people will get it.......

patience is a virtue, learn it if you can, (or just learn to compile if you're impatient :D :p)

.... :D

plun

October 3rd, 2007, 06:55 PM

ubuntu is a distro aimed at the not so technically advanced newb linux users (I was and still am such a person)

I have absolutely no idea what the ubuntu devs think and I could be wrong in thinking the above, but that's what I believe is true....

:D

Well... this is "Road to nowhere" or worse... "MS wannabes" desperately chooses this direction.

"We must do something equal as Windows Vistas Aero"...:o
"Everything must be "automagic"."... :p

MS-Redmond can teach this...."shoot yourself in the foot"...

Linux users can read, mostly all of them also can think... 100% sure ;)

Maybe easier to start a new "Corporate Edition" with 100 % "kiosk-mode" ... :D

I have just installed Open Suse 10.3 RC and I am going to check out
their solution... I cant believe that Open Suse are so stupid as Ubuntu.

This will just be a total mess...maybe for Gutsy +1 its possible.

Maybe Debian Sid is an alternative but I am too lazy with that..:cool:

:)

delfick

October 4th, 2007, 03:36 AM

Well... this is "Road to nowhere" or worse... "MS wannabes" desperately chooses this direction.

"We must do something equal as Windows Vistas Aero"...:o
"Everything must be "automagic"."... :p

MS-Redmond can teach this...."shoot yourself in the foot"...

Linux users can read, mostly all of them also can think... 100% sure ;)

Maybe easier to start a new "Corporate Edition" with 100 % "kiosk-mode" ... :D

I have just installed Open Suse 10.3 RC and I am going to check out
their solution... I cant believe that Open Suse are so stupid as Ubuntu.

This will just be a total mess...maybe for Gutsy +1 its possible.

Maybe Debian Sid is an alternative but I am too lazy with that..:cool:

:)

not everyone has the time to do that

but hate microsoft windows and want to switch to linux which is better, regardless of wether it's a source based distro where you have control over every single little aspect of the entire system, or wether they choose a distro like ubuntu which is _aimed_ to cater for the less technologically advanced people (not everyone is intelligent with computers, wether or not such people really use linux (or computers) is beside the point)

If you don't like ubuntu then don't use it, you have that freedom, it is a gift of linux that you can choose the distro that suits you

If you don't have time to be in complete control over everything (which will make the better system, agreed) and just want everything to work, then you choose something like ubuntu...

otherwise choose something else, and if that something else doesn't fit your needs as well, then choose something else again.....

you can even return to whatever you had before again

you can have multiple distros of linux on your computer at the same time

etc etc etc

the main point I really want to say but I don't think I really have, is to understand what ubuntu is aimed for, and accept it, linux is meant to cater for every type of user, that includes the lazy/confused/busy ones......

(btw, I'm such a user, I like to tweak, but I also like things to just work, so I choose ubuntu)
(and I'm still able to run whatever version of compiz fusion I want, because it is still linux, things can be changed once the OS is installed....)

plun

October 4th, 2007, 07:28 AM

the main point I really want to say but I don't think I really have, is to understand what ubuntu is aimed for, and accept it, linux is meant to cater for every type of user, that includes the lazy/confused/busy ones......

(btw, I'm such a user, I like to tweak, but I also like things to just work, so I choose ubuntu)
(and I'm still able to run whatever version of compiz fusion I want, because it is still linux, things can be changed once the OS is installed....)

Ubuntu is not aimed for to default hiding the cube and settings..!!! :cool:

"Where is my cube.." :confused: "Where are my settings" :confused:

You can already see this question as an FAQ in Gutsys dev forum.

If Ubuntu wants a beautiful MS-Redmond Windows Vista approach so make an Corporate Edition dist for such users...

Hopefully Trevino can fix his repo for Gutsy and users which doesn't want to run GIT version can run C-F with full potential without that "Mum" decides whats best.

This will directly be a success.... :) 100% sure....

Hopefully also Ubuntu changes this to a smarter solution....

EDIT

One more thing.... Ubuntu Gnome integration just makes it more difficult for a newbie which expects the cube and also settings for the cube and plugins.

A user expect to find something that she/he sees at YouTube... 100% sure

delfick

October 4th, 2007, 10:59 AM

Ubuntu is not aimed for to default hiding the cube and settings..!!! :cool:

"Where is my cube.." :confused: "Where are my settings" :confused:

You can already see this question as an FAQ in Gutsys dev forum.

If Ubuntu wants a beautiful MS-Redmond Windows Vista approach so make an Corporate Edition dist for such users...

Hopefully Trevino can fix his repo for Gutsy and users which doesn't want to run GIT version can run C-F with full potential without that "Mum" decides whats best.

This will directly be a success.... :) 100% sure....

Hopefully also Ubuntu changes this to a smarter solution....

EDIT

One more thing.... Ubuntu Gnome integration just makes it more difficult for a newbie which expects the cube and also settings for the cube and plugins.

A user expect to find something that she/he sees at YouTube... 100% sure

k then, so your main problem isn't about the version of compiz....

rather the default settings....

is there any bug report for ubuntu around asking for better defaults and some sort of configuration tool (i.e. Marex's tool (http://gitweb.opencompositing.org/?p=users/marex/simple-ccsm;a=summary)) that allows some simple editing of the settings?

plun

October 4th, 2007, 10:27 PM

k then, so your main problem isn't about the version of compiz....

rather the default settings....

is there any bug report for ubuntu around asking for better defaults and some sort of configuration tool (i.e. Marex's tool (http://gitweb.opencompositing.org/?p=users/marex/simple-ccsm;a=summary)) that allows some simple editing of the settings?

Nope... the problem is that Ubuntu tries to change Compiz-Fusion to something
which it isnt.

It will be a bombardment with questions about it, where is the cube and settings.

I never plays with cube, its fun the first week, but for desktop rotates and
the magic screensaver I can see this masterpiece.

Hiding the cube is just stupid...

And unsupported plugins dont brake a PC, driver problem in 99% of all broken PCs.

Compiz-Fusion as project must have their own identity.....Novell probably
pays most :)

You can already see questions within this forum about Gutsy....:o

delfick

October 5th, 2007, 12:58 AM

Nope... the problem is that Ubuntu tries to change Compiz-Fusion to something
which it isnt.

It will be a bombardment with questions about it, where is the cube and settings.

I never plays with cube, its fun the first week, but for desktop rotates and
the magic screensaver I can see this masterpiece.

Hiding the cube is just stupid...

And unsupported plugins dont brake a PC, driver problem in 99% of all broken PCs.

Compiz-Fusion as project must have their own identity.....Novell probably
pays most :)

You can already see questions within this forum about Gutsy....:o

yes, but that's ubuntu's problem, I doubt we have control over that .....

(also, there's a reason we have configuration files, so that configuration can be changed)

not everyone wants their computer to be a circus....

But there are those who do, yes, who might get confused as to how to change the settings

which is why you should contact ubuntu about this issue,

make a bug in launchpad for ubuntu asking them to make it clearer to the users on how to change the compiz-fusion settings...

I.e. in the preferences dialog where you enable the desktop effects, have a choice between different levels of effects (which is as simple as providing different configuration files) and have explanation of how to use ccsm to change settings (and let that settings include how to install it (sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager) if they're gonna refuse to package it......

but nothing's gonna get done if you're gonna voice your concerns over here where they're not looking, instead of posting a bug....

so I repeat my question, is there a bug already or are you still to make one ??

:D

P.S. if you make a bug report, I highly suggest you use a neutral language and don't make it an attack, that won't work....

maniac

October 5th, 2007, 09:08 AM

Nope... the problem is that Ubuntu tries to change Compiz-Fusion to something
which it isnt.

It will be a bombardment with questions about it, where is the cube and settings.

I never plays with cube, its fun the first week, but for desktop rotates and
the magic screensaver I can see this masterpiece.

Hiding the cube is just stupid...

If you have personal problems with Ubuntu and how they are packaging Compiz and/or what their default settings are, place a bug report on Launchpad instead of polluting all of our forums with your constant complaints. This is a Compiz/Compiz Fusion forum, not a complain-about-Ubuntu-Gutsy one.

And unsupported plugins dont brake a PC, driver problem in 99% of all broken PCs.

Unsupported plugins are unsupported for a reason. If you want to deal with the bug reports resulting out of their usage, you can apply as compiz-fusion-plugins-unsupported packager at Ubuntu.

Compiz-Fusion as project must have their own identity.....Novell probably
pays most :)

This is my very last warning: If you continue posting wild, unproven accusations, I'll send your account off for some time. Either back up statements like the above one, or keep silent.
Besides that, concluding "Novell pays most" from the statement "Ubuntu Gutsy disables cube by default" is ridiculous at best. Compiz Fusion has its own identity, however the distributions are obviously free to do whatever they want with the source packages; which includes changing the default settings.

delfick

October 5th, 2007, 02:17 PM

Well... I cannot see any reason for keeping "the mess"

that's why it will be moved to the wiki one day as I said

then its a method to keep newbies from bleeding edge C-F.

untill we get the wiki completed (which apparently is on the agenda) it's called forum search and google

if you cannot use those two things, you will find using linux a struggle as you won't have any idea on how to do anything and you won't have a clue onto how to get information......

I experienced that the first time I used linux a few years ago...........

and why does every single person and their dog need to use bleeding edge ??

some people are actually satisfied with release versions

and if you are really that keen to try latest bleeding edge, then you're probably already used to linux and know how it works, and can do so easily................

otherwise, go to this thread http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=1985 or if that doesn't work on your distro, start a new thread in installation asking how to get past any problems you get from following that guide in your distro.......

plun

October 5th, 2007, 04:28 PM

delfick

October 5th, 2007, 04:57 PM

OK....:)

If you wants something to read.... one more mess...

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=compiz&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=&start=0

:rolleyes:

mess is launchpad itself...

it musn't inforce people to use tags

I search for reports with the tag "compiz" I get like 5 results

anyway, looking at the search results you linked to (I would just like to point out that I'm basing the next assumption mainly on the report titles and a few I actually opened and looked at as I don't have time to look at them all) that most problems are due to drivers

not even you can think we have control over drivers

or they're bug reports about limitations of compiz itself

or they obviously haven't even looked anywhere or asked in the appropiate places before putting a bug report in launchpad

half of them on that page aren't even related to compiz

sorry, but that proves nothing..........

delfick

October 6th, 2007, 01:15 PM

plun

October 6th, 2007, 01:20 PM

I have taken any forum related discussion from this thread to over here (http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=4575)

in future take up such major web related discussions on the ML please

thankyou

Well... this is just basics for a functional forum. IMHO... ;)
Probably done in an hour...:cool:

()va|_

October 7th, 2007, 08:34 AM

It's very nice that Compiz is included in Ubuntu.

In my humble oppinion, the default settings of compiz (when installed) are not representing it in full glow.
Default sets are not a good representation when it comes to cube and it's rotatation. It should be more zoomed out and slower rotatation.
Also since hardware is progressing rapidly, u might wanna include a little bit transparency on startup :)

That would make a bigger/better wow effect, when effects are started and/or compiz installed.
Maybe including, for instance, three profiles presetuped with different sets (low, medium and hard bling).
Just a thought :)

Forlong

October 8th, 2007, 04:15 PM

Well, plun... I honestly don't get what's your problem with Ubuntu's decisions here.
This Gnome Integration is something that can ruin C-F.....
How exactly? Most users don't care what applications do the job as long as they do it. An entry for Compiz in the panel means nothing, if you don't know what it does.

Most of the integration is done by Compiz anyway.
Ubuntu is trying to create something which probably doesnt work. Maybe in Gutsy +1, 8.04
Like I wrote in the article, Gutsy+1 is a LTS release and it's questionable if Compiz will be turned on in such a release by default, so we would have to wait 'till Hardy+1 (8.10 - in other words: a full year)
Also a gamer will directly get into trouble... "cancel redirect fullscreen window" is one way, another is to switch to Metacity.

The easiest way to handle this is with an GUI wrapper such as fusion-icon
Gamers are not the main target for Ubuntu. And turning off Compiz requires only four clicks.

I agree, not including ccsm by default is not wise. But mostly because they chose not to give an option to get the cube. In general it's too confusing.

plun

October 9th, 2007, 08:27 PM

Well...all I want is an identity for this project.

I also misses this persons visions and goals.:(

http://www.lulu.tv/?p=4346

Ubuntus users will read at wordpressblogs etc about hidden features. :p

One positive issue with this could I see now when a new kernel arrived for Gutsy. The restricted manager works..including nVidias latest "dirty driver", thats great ! Also a lot of work with packages.

Now I just hope that Trevino adjusts his packages for running C-F with full potential.

I also tested the new GUI for GIT download/install...:cool:

:)

EDIT
The restricted manager is still broken...

Forlong

October 11th, 2007, 11:08 PM

Well...all I want is an identity for this project.
Just because you and me like Compiz and it's community so much doesn't mean that others have to as well.
And what does identity in terms of software mean anyway?
Ubuntus users will read at wordpressblogs etc about hidden features. :p
Let them. It's not like you get dumb, once you use Gutsy.

In fact, I don't think there won't be any change at all. Anyone who's interested in Compiz now will continue fiddling with everything. It's not like Gutsy hides anything from you.

But there are many users who just don't care and that's fine with me. Just like I don't care much about Totem or gEdit. They are just doing their job for me.

vadi

October 12th, 2007, 12:35 AM

To get back on the original topic of this thread, Compiz Fusion is really great for productivity. Being able to more windows to and from different workspaces, or cube sides are they are in Compiz, is much easier than under plain metacity, so I use that option more often. Group and tab windows are a godsend, along with being able to both have the ring switcher and cover switcher enabled at the same time. Window management, overall, is top-notch in Compiz.

The very nice graphical look also is very pleasing on eyes, and makes me proud that I'm on Linux - Compiz very well competes with Aero and OS X's WM, so I'm not left out when those people are bragging.

Oh, and the defaults are perfectly setup - I don't have to waste time configuring stuff, instead, I can actually focus on doing work, and gaming my laptop is intended for.

I'm just an average user who needs an OS that works, not one that needs constant tinkering with. Which is exactly the reason I switched to it :).

plun

October 12th, 2007, 09:24 AM

Just because you and me like Compiz and it's community so much doesn't mean that others have to as well.
And what does identity in terms of software mean anyway?

Let them. It's not like you get dumb, once you use Gutsy.

In fact, I don't think there won't be any change at all. Anyone who's interested in Compiz now will continue fiddling with everything. It's not like Gutsy hides anything from you.

But there are many users who just don't care and that's fine with me. Just like I don't care much about Totem or gEdit. They are just doing their job for me.

Well..

- This community forum is just a big mess...

- It seems that nearly all devs have abandon this project, or its on purpose beacuse of Ubuntu 7.10, Open Sue 10.3 and Fedora 8... who knows ?
I can see a few devs working with GIT.

- Gutsy is hiding functionality in the same manner as MS-Redmond always
have done against users and software.

- You cannot find any blueprint or community discussion about C-F and Gutsy.
"A closed group" with advanced users, moderators (UF) and devs has just decided that Gutsy will adopt a different GUI for C-F and default install.

- This is the opposite to what Quinn Storm wanted with Beryl, but there must be a balance between Beryls view and Compiz view, now everything ended in a mess and a bunch of MS-Wannabees took over.... :(

- The starting point must be to reorganize this mess to forum....IMHO

adamk

October 12th, 2007, 09:42 AM

<snip>

- You cannot find any blueprint or community discussion about C-F and Gutsy.
"A closed group" with advanced users, moderators (UF) and devs has just decided that Gutsy will adopt a different GUI for C-F and default install.

The Gutsy maintainers made that decision, *not* the compiz-fusion developers.

plun

October 12th, 2007, 09:52 AM

The Gutsy maintainers made that decision, *not* the compiz-fusion developers.

Yup.....

-Compiz core is mainly controlled from Reveman/Novell....;)

-C-F is a standalone project ............;)

-C-Fs community is also "standalone" .....:cool:

But apparently we have moderators and advanced users which cannot make
a difference between a distribution and this project.

:)

delfick

October 12th, 2007, 10:24 AM

- This community forum is just a big mess...

I'm still waiting for you to do anything constructive with this and take it up on the ML

- Gutsy is hiding functionality in the same manner as MS-Redmond always
have done against users and software.

- You cannot find any blueprint or community discussion about C-F and Gutsy.
"A closed group" with advanced users, moderators (UF) and devs has just decided that Gutsy will adopt a different GUI for C-F and default install.

take it up with ubuntu

compiz-fusion =! ubuntu and vice verca

- This is the opposite to what Quinn Storm wanted with Beryl, but there must be a balance between Beryls view and Compiz view, now everything ended in a mess and a bunch of MS-Wannabees took over.... :(

beryl =! compiz-fusion

and without restarting the beryl vs compiz war, what do you think Quinn wanted from beryl ??

and stop the MS comparions.

- The starting point must be to reorganize this mess to forum....IMHO

see my first point..........

adamk

October 12th, 2007, 10:38 AM

But apparently we have moderators and advanced users which cannot make
a difference between a distribution and this project.

:)

Instead of throwing around baseless accusations, how about actually telling us who these users and moderators are, and why you think they cannot make such a distinction.

Adam

Forlong

October 12th, 2007, 11:15 AM

Compiz Fusion is really great for productivity. Being able to more windows to and from different workspaces, or cube sides are they are in Compiz, is much easier than under plain metacity, so I use that option more often. Group and tab windows are a godsend, along with being able to both have the ring switcher and cover switcher enabled at the same time. Window management, overall, is top-notch in Compiz.
True but most of that is not enabled by default, So, like I stated in the review, many users won't even know about all the great productivity features. Even the enabled ones like Scale and Expo...

- Gutsy is hiding functionality in the same manner as MS-Redmond always have done against users and software.
That's simply not true. CCSM is not installed by default because it's just too confusing for the regular user without a walkthrough.
But once you install it, you can set everything you want. No hidden features at all.

- You cannot find any blueprint or community discussion about C-F and Gutsy.
"A closed group" with advanced users, moderators (UF) and devs has just decided that Gutsy will adopt a different GUI for C-F and default install.
Only the Ubuntu devs decided that. And yes, that's a closed group, of course.
But it's not like you can't get in touch with them. In fact, I talked to Michael Vogt (https://launchpad.net/~compiz) about my review lately and discussed certain issues that should get better in Hardy.
It may be true the decision making process is not really transparent over there but like delfick said, take that up with Ubuntu.

- This is the opposite to what Quinn Storm wanted with Beryl
I'd call that an assumption...

But apparently we have moderators and advanced users which cannot make a difference between a distribution and this project.
Are you talking about yourself here? ;)

plun

October 12th, 2007, 07:17 PM

Are you talking about yourself here? ;)

Nope.. we can start and take a look at this "super mess" again ... :p

http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/forumdisplay.php?f=87

Then we can write about this "over and over again"... I am just going to
watch the mess the 18th ;)

I just noticed problem for several users (Gutsy upgrades) running Trevinos repo and if someone could try to contact him and ask if he can change his packages.
Avoid a little mess...:rolleyes:

Thanks :)

Now I going to play with my hydra kernel...2.6.23... Turbo...:D