Who let those geese in here?!

[Giblet]

When reading the mailing-list "discussions", about which forum software to use, I can't help picturing a large flock of fat geese or chickens endlessly clucking at one another.

Big. Fat. Stupid. Bored. Geese.

Who cares. A forum is a forum is a forum. You write posts. You read replies. Everything else is just noise.

Only a person who had absolutely NO other function in the entire scheme of life would waste more than 30 brain-seconds of effort on the issue.

As a contibutor who is in a holding-pattern while the core ... "Compositing Thing" evolves and stabilizes so I can continue, I'm much more annoyed than amused by this gaggle of whining little cyberbrats.

I wish they would just listen to what their spinal cords are saying to them (I won't presume brains are available to play any role); reinstall Windows 98 and go argue over on MySpace.

[imported_sdlvx]

i think they should have spent more time coming up with a better name than "compcomm"
:?

[Fyda]

First of all, I'm sorry for the length of this post. I'll refrain from making any more posts of this nature in future. I also apologise if I get any of the facts wrong; I trust I will be corrected on any glaring errors.

The name doesn't bother me. I thought we (the community) were supposed to vote on a new name. But, that's not the most important matter right now; whether "CompComm" is a placeholder name or not, a name is still only metadata. For there to be meaningful, purposeful metadata, there must be data: that is, of course, the actual software.

Yes, I think I understand that choosing forum software, from an admin's perspective, requires the consideration of many factors which are invisible to regular users. No, I don't believe it should take so many pages of verbal sparring and uncoordinated site-editing to come up with results in that area.

And yet, the fighting happened anyway.

Everyone is aware of how unproductive such arguments are, and yet not everyone seems to be taking the sensible route when they have a choice between A) moving on and B) continuing to emotionalise, moralise, politicise and personalise the matter.

Perhaps this is because, in their eyes, the options are A) fighting the good (competent) fight and B) losing to the bad (incompetent) side. I needn't point out what happens when everyone assigns different values to "good" and "bad." Think of it as being on the horns of a dilemma -- or on the tines of a fork. Either way you turn...

And yet, the forums happened anyway.

No, the fierce debates on the mailing list were not terribly productive. But, there is work being done (or such is suggested). If it were more visible to us, chances are it would be appreciated. This has already been stated by a few other users.

I am left doubting the ability of the CompComm team to complete their tasks in a timely matter. I don't doubt the individuals, but rather, the collective. Whatever their differences, I believe that the team members are individually well-intentioned and capable of productivity. I just doubt that, at this rate, they will get much done together.

(What was that famous saying? "Hell is other people"? Yes; even angels can disagree violently. But enough of such comparisons.)

Is it true that everyone (or nearly that) is on the "web team"? If so, then this seems inefficient and would explain the recent conflicts. Can there not be one or two people (not three, not four) assigned to maintaining the forums, for better or for worse, freeing the others to work on other things? Whatever the maintainer chooses, it will be that person's task to work with that software; why should that choice matter so much to the others, if they are not the one maintaining it?

Does everyone need to have admin-level access and admin-level authority? Why? Is it truly a necessity for the project? Is it out of distrust for any one person having top-level control? Is there so little trust within the team that a neutral third-party forum maintainer might need to be enlisted?

I also worry that the fighting over forum software has been merely an alternative manifestation of much older hostility.

And yet, CompComm will happen anyway. Will it? I'm sure something will happen, but at this rate, not what we were hoping for, and not as soon as previously expected. But this has been obvious for a while.

Thank you... and sorry for all this.

[delfick]

i agree....the mailing list is not being too effective....there is one reason why (two if we consider stubborness)

there is no leader..........

at the moment, it seems that no-one is in charge, no-one has authority, and everyone has their own opinions and agendas (mine is to close these forums until we have a "release" and the forums have been completely set up (importing of relevant threads, ideas, documentation, etc and aesthetics things like theme....)

............


we need some way of ending this fight.......but i doubt there'll be such a thing

here are the options i can think of right now

a) poll -- which wouldn't work anyway, people would either dismiss or grasp it in accordance to their own agendas, and polls on the internet tend to be dodgy anyway

b) drinking game -- unfortunately we live all over the world, so coming together for one drinking game (which would include paying for travel costs, etc :D) isn't really worth it....and i'm not 18 yet, so i wouldn't be able to join in :P

c) someone becomes leader -- would work, but choosing the leader would be a bigger fight than choosing the forum software, so probably not a good idea

d) continue the fight for eternity and just give control over forum software to whichever teams gains lead in arguements over time (this way the community have visual clue when one team is owning the other, and when that lead switches (becuase the old forums would be gone and replaced with shiny new forums....except this would happen in a neverending cycle......(i like that idea, cause it means less likely other people gain considerable lead in post count over me whilst i stop myself from posting on forums so much so i have time to do homework :P (just kidding))

e) cry -- probably most effective, seeing as nothing else with have effects :D

f) create a team of people who are impartial to both the code and the community to decide what is best -- won't work because they won't know what's best :D

g) create a team of people who are impartial to the code and part of the community to decide what is best -- probably most likely to see results

h) ten points to the person who notices the difference between f and g -- gives purpose to my ramblings (which is created from my procrastination of homework )

i) must keep going untill i reach option z -- means i avoid homwork in the short term

j) provide chill pills to everyone in the mailing list -- wouldn't work as the required dosage for some people may result in overdose

k) nearly forgot what was after j -- *sign i should give up here*

lmnopqrstuvwxyz) give up and walk away -- won't work because then we won't have eyecandy anymore

have a nice weekend :D
(i'll try keep myself away from the mailing list and forum for the weekend, too much to do)....

[Vasek]

j) provide chill pills to everyone in the mailing list -- wouldn't work as the required dosage for some people may result in overdose

You couldn't be more exact here, delfick. I'm watching this all for a month or so and I have only had to alter my images of several unnamed people I considered kind and friendly... But I think it's that mailing list and all that anger and hate in it that turns people evil. Please (anybody), don't let yourself :(
[I don't know if I expressed the meaning of the last sentence correctly, but I'm sure you'll understand it.]

[JonB]

Can't we institute a voting system like the Geronimo project for passing a resolution? e.g. +1/0/-1

It would perhaps end the endless recycling of discussion without any outcomes or action items. Just a thought.

Have a good weekend. :)

[ianni67]

Giblet is right: there's no point in discussing about the name of the forum, or about the kind of software being used for it. Come on, there's so much to do around this community!

I'm not a coder myself, and this makes me feel unessential here, yet I'm a user since the very beginning and suppose to have some knowledge about beryl and compiz (and also about linux and programming). What I would like to see here is a serious discussion about how to improve opencompositing usability and user experience, how to improve the user interface of linux in general, how to solve some severe issues with the most frequently installed graphics cards, and so on. Technical and design - oriented issues.
Am I wrong?

[Jupiter]

Giblet is right: there's no point in discussing about the name of the forum, or about the kind of software being used for it. Come on, there's so much to do around this community!

I'm not a coder myself, and this makes me feel unessential here, yet I'm a user since the very beginning and suppose to have some knowledge about beryl and compiz (and also about linux and programming). What I would like to see here is a serious discussion about how to improve opencompositing usability and user experience, how to improve the user interface of linux in general, how to solve some severe issues with the most frequently installed graphics cards, and so on. Technical and design - oriented issues.
Am I wrong?


True That
There is no need for "us" users to be inflaming the "forum software" war in the forum
itself. Let the forum admins discuss and decide themselves. As far as the name, I can
see where it would be inspiring to involve the community at the appropriate time.
Although i must say i do like the name we are using now "OpenCompositing". I think
it works good for a nice logo acronym like "OC2". Pronounced O C squared
"squared as in cube". Anyway it does appear from the latest ML entry's that most of
the merge is close to being done. Let's just hope that "other issues" get resolved soon
and, let's not bring this ML battle here in the forum which could discourage regular users.
With that said. My weekend started today "Talladega weekend", so i feel it is appropriate
to follow delfick's option B and start drinking now...LOL Actually am just happy i start
working from home again Monday...hehe

[imported_karmapolice]

My only complain is that in the Spanish forum people is asking for Beryl support :S . I think that closing the beryl forum was a rush.

[Jupiter]

My only complain is that in the Spanish forum people is asking for Beryl support :S . I think that closing the beryl forum was a rush.


I don't think it is a rush BUT, I think there should be a BIG announcement at the top
of the page with a delayed re-direct to the new forum. The compiz and beryl forums
have a link in the new forum so people can go read the archived material. These links
should be configured so the users won't be taken to the re-direct page. Then any
new post should be done here in their respective areas.

P.S. playing around with Vista64 this morning. Looks nice but
still can't hang with Linux/Opencomposite
[url=http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vistaxl9.png:290ef]http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9687/vistaxl9.th.png[/url:290ef]

[franzrogar]

My only complain is that in the Spanish forum people is asking for Beryl support :S . I think that closing the beryl forum was a rush.

Hello karmapolice.

I'm the spanish mod. I know the facto what's happening there. We thought about that and ended with keeping all foreing languages at only one forum. To keep forum clean, I ended using tags as I did over beryl forums, marking all beryl related threads with [beryl] tag.

In a future, those threads will be out-dated and, moved to "legacy".

[plun]

i agree....the mailing list is not being too effective....there is one reason why (two if we consider stubborness)

there is no leader..........

at the moment, it seems that no-one is in charge, no-one has authority, and everyone has their own opinions and agendas (mine is to close these forums until we have a "release" and the forums have been completely set up (importing of relevant threads, ideas, documentation, etc and aesthetics things like theme....)


f) create a team of people who are impartial to both the code and the community to decide what is best -- won't work because they won't know what's best :D

g) create a team of people who are impartial to the code and part of the community to decide what is best -- probably most likely to see results


Thanks delfick

It must be possible to run this project...........

I dont know if you knows about Ubuntus way to handle conflicts.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoResolvingProblems

Is it possible to find a "mentor" ?

We have one winner in this arena and its MS-Redmond... :evil:

My english is bad but who cares...

regards
:D